KLAS Departures

[Tgaug6300]

Hopefully we have some KLAS Controlers on here that could answer a question for me? As a Corporate Pilot we always park on the West side of the field. Many times we are (at the FBO) right next to the approach end of 19R, yet controllers will have us taxi all the way over to 25R for departure (usually for the STAAV Dep,for heading to the East).

I was told that if you tell the controllers that "For Operational Purposes" you would like RWY 19L or 19R they will give you a departure that corresponds with that runway. Is this correct, and if so is that published somewhere?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

and what would these operational purposes be? Getting in the air quicker, stopping everyone else at the appropriate runway from departing?

 

[Tgaug6300]

That is why I'm asking if something is published that perhaps defines what these purposes would be. Thanks for your helpful reply.

 

[Famous Dave]

I am not a controller. But I think it depends on which direction you are heading and what ATC is doing with the arrivals. I don't see why you coudn't use the TRALR2 but maybe they don't want you messing up the inbounds from the west. This is just a guess. I do see a lot of simultaneous departures from 19's and 25 on a daily basis. So maybe it's just a once in a while thing. I used to fly corporate and I agree, that is one b!tch of a taxi.

 

[BEfly]

I'm in Vegas.....a lot. I'm there 15 times a month. I've taxied to 25R like 3 times, its a long way! Esp from Atlantic.

When filing your route, make sure that you choose a departure that will work for RWY 19. The STAAV is a RWY 25 departure only. I'm no controller, and some ATC procedures mystify me still. But if you file STAAV4, and the controller doesn't catch it and change it up, you are probably going to get 25R. Instead, file the TRALR2 or PRFUM2. I'd go with TRALR. Its an RNAV with transitions all over the place, and its applicable for ALL runways in All directions.

 

[SELCAL checks]

Operational Necessity is usually invoked when you don't have the performance to use a particular runway.

You'd probably be hard pressed to explain why you weren't able to use a 14,500 ft runway, but you had the numbers for a 8900 ft runway. Unless you can show that you would have been unable to meet the non-standard climb requirement off 25R of 220'/nm to 2400 feet.

 

[THE Flying Ace]

We don't make it into Vegas much but each time I have filed the TRALR departure and every time ATC has changed us to the STAAV departure. This makes the taxi very long and of course, there was a day it was blazing hot, our AC wasn't working.

I too would like to know if there are any secrets to getting RWY 19 flying to the east.

 

[SDCFI]

You folks obviously don't have the "big picture". (Sarcasm)

Take a look at the arrivals. The ones from the NW - SW all end up bringing the traffic South of the field. The TRALR takes the departures off 19 and 25 to the South then East, whereas the STAAV takes you North then East. Probably easier to just have all Eastbound departures use 25. ATCers are human too, some are just lazy and don't want the extra work. Can't say as I blame them!

 

[say again]

Request 19 and take it from there.

 

[gutshotdraw]

A little history.

Prior to 9/11, the "right turn out" off of Runway 25R was common practice for aircraft destined for the northeast. Corporate operators were usually assigned 19R with a left turn out, held down under the arrivals, and then climbed out over Lake Mead. Post-9/11 paranoia ended the right turn out because of concerns about the overflight of Nellis Air Force Base airspace. So, for about 7 years, LAS ATC was forced to shove the proverbial 10 pounds of airplanes into a 5 pound bag through the same departure gate to the southwest. Something had to give as the departure delays began to climb.

About 3 years ago, FAA published their intent to restore the right turn out with an RNAV departure (precision guidance) that would stay out of Nellis airspace. The hue and cry from the noise whiner residents of Summerlin and the other northwest-side neighborhoods was huge including a threat by our gin-swilling Mayor to file suit against it.

Long story a little shorter: no lawsuit, right turn out reinstated, departure delays reduced, but corporate operators screaming because, if you are going anywhere northeast, you MUST taxi to 25R and you MUST take the STAAV unless winds or ATC operational considerations deem otherwise. If the destination is somewhere other than northeast, the runway assignment and departure procedure are negotiable. If you're going to Teeterhole or Chicago, or anywhere else in that general direction, enjoy the tour of the airport and try not to burn up your brakes on the downhill taxi...

You can also cross your fingers that the winds are howling out of the north so you can use 1L/R

Hope this helps.